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IN-OFF-FOR-2
Super Rockchucker
Registered: Mar 2013
Location:
Posts: 1875 |
3 takeaways from 2022 worlds.
1. NEVER hold world curling championships in the desert.
2. NEVER use hand me down rocks from another organization that discarded them knowing they were crap.
3. Bring in the worlds best ice makers to help/oversee/assist and to teach the locals and maintain ice conditions to at least playable.
No excuse to have the teams play under these conditions. It’s a sheet show out there.
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04-10-22 08:06PM |
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Bmalky
Harvey Hacksmasher
Registered: Mar 2019
Location: Brantford, ON
Posts: 49 |
[QUOTE]Originally posted by IN-OFF-FOR-2
3 takeaways from 2022 worlds.
1. NEVER hold world curling championships in the desert.
2. NEVER use hand me down rocks from another organization that discarded them knowing they were crap.
3. Bring in the worlds best ice makers to help/oversee/assist and to teach the locals and maintain ice conditions to at least playable.
No excuse to have the teams play under these conditions. It’s a sheet show out there. [QUOTE]
The ice is an embarrassment to the WCF. Making the best look bad!
Last edited by Bmalky on 04-10-22 at 08:27PM
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04-10-22 08:12PM |
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dbsdbs
Drawmaster
Registered: Feb 2013
Location:
Posts: 812 |
Kind of entertaining to watch when ice, rocks, everything is not perfect. Makes for an interesting game.
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04-10-22 09:39PM |
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myhouse911
Hitting Paint
Registered: Mar 2022
Location: Canada
Posts: 154 |
What an end to the Mens Worlds, two poor matches but regardless, congrats to Edin winning his 6th and Italy winning their first medals here.
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04-10-22 09:53PM |
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guido
Super Rockchucker
Registered: Feb 2011
Location: Winnipeg
Posts: 1418 |
What a piss poor excuse for a world final.
No fault of the players.
The luckiest team won.
I sure enjoy watching skill.
__________________
It’s me!
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04-10-22 09:54PM |
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On The Nose
Drawmaster
Registered: Apr 2014
Location: In the House
Posts: 608 |
Congratulations to Team Sweden.
It's quite unfortunate that the championship game was marred by terrible ice. The players definitely deserved better from the WCF, who obviously went for style over substance in choosing Vegas. That's inexcusable.
Drawing from my own curling experience, bad ice completely zaps the enjoyment out of the game - because all of your natural instincts are eliminated. You have to forget almost everything you've learned over 'X' number of years of curling, and re-learn from scratch in a very short time.
Bad ice is even worse for players at the Elite level.
Credit to Sweden, who figured out the terrible ice a bit better than Canada did today.
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"It is easy in the world to live after the world's opinion; it is easy in solitude to live after our own... but the great man is he who, in the midst of the crowd, keeps with perfect sweetness the independence of solitude." ~ Ralph Waldo Emerson
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04-10-22 10:25PM |
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IN-OFF-FOR-2
Super Rockchucker
Registered: Mar 2013
Location:
Posts: 1875 |
quote: Originally posted by guido
What a piss poor excuse for a world final.
No fault of the players.
The luckiest team won.
I sure enjoy watching skill.
Like button.
Yeah yeah Ice is the same both teams. But when ice is crap, is that acceptable??? I think not.
As stated after the 3rd end. No sour grapes. Just reality. #iceandrocksarecrap.
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04-10-22 10:53PM |
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hogged again
Drawmaster
Registered: Mar 2019
Location:
Posts: 659 |
Worst final ever. Never ever seen Oskar and Gushue curl that badly. The difference was the Gushue rock that backed up on him early, after that he wasn't the same mentally. Edin was playing on the same sheet but didn't seem as affected by it despite his team missing all over the place while Gushue's team was obsessed with the ice. All that aside if he blanks 9 its his game.
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04-10-22 11:34PM |
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myhouse911
Hitting Paint
Registered: Mar 2022
Location: Canada
Posts: 154 |
quote: Originally posted by hogged again
Worst final ever. Never ever seen Oskar and Gushue curl that badly. The difference was the Gushue rock that backed up on him early, after that he wasn't the same mentally. Edin was playing on the same sheet but didn't seem as affected by it despite his team missing all over the place while Gushue's team was obsessed with the ice. All that aside if he blanks 9 its his game.
Hard to really assume that Gushue would have won had he blanked in 9. He only scored one deuce all game and that was a steal in the 2nd end. Otherwise he was held to singles every time he scored with hammer.
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04-11-22 12:34AM |
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Hack Weight
Hitting Paint
Registered: Dec 2014
Location: Alberta
Posts: 131 |
Shame the WCF put on a world championship on under circus conditions. Embarrassing really. If it’s not possible to have decent ice in Vegas, then don’t go there (it’s not like you’re selling out anyways). If it is possible, then your ice maker sucks.
That being said, the skip that complained about it less won. Edin didn’t have any trouble making a dead perfect draw with his last in 10.
Obviously a very good season for Gushue and one for the history books. Little suspect timing on declaring his team the best ever, considering he didn’t win the Olympics and, as it turns out, lost again to Edin in the WC final.
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04-11-22 12:51AM |
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Dangermouse
Swing Artist
Registered: Feb 2014
Location:
Posts: 245 |
quote: Originally posted by dugless_zone 13
Depth of talent, no other country comes close to Canada. When Edin's creaky back fails in a couple of years Sweden need to rebuild. Norway is rebuilding and Scotland has their young guns but after that, who knows.
Sweden would just send the same team but with Ericsson as the skip
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04-11-22 01:18AM |
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Dangermouse
Swing Artist
Registered: Feb 2014
Location:
Posts: 245 |
quote: Originally posted by hogged again
Worst final ever. Never ever seen Oskar and Gushue curl that badly. The difference was the Gushue rock that backed up on him early, after that he wasn't the same mentally. Edin was playing on the same sheet but didn't seem as affected by it despite his team missing all over the place while Gushue's team was obsessed with the ice. All that aside if he blanks 9 its his game.
Nah. No way Sweden are giving away a deuce when 1-up
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04-11-22 01:20AM |
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Prawnpuller
Harvey Hacksmasher
Registered: Feb 2013
Location: British Columbia
Posts: 97 |
To have a world championship at a venue with ice conditions like that is embarrasing...Having said that Kudos to the Swedes..they were the better team today and handled the crappy ice better than Gush..
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04-11-22 01:44AM |
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myhouse911
Hitting Paint
Registered: Mar 2022
Location: Canada
Posts: 154 |
Interesting that 3 of the 4 canadians outcurled their swedish counterparts. Russ said at the beginning that whoever was the better third would determine the result (or something to that effect). Well, Nichols shot close to his round robin average while Oskar shot closer to his 2014 finals abysmal performance than his round robin average.
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04-11-22 04:11AM |
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oliviertoisel
Drawmaster
Registered: Feb 2021
Location:
Posts: 587 |
What can you even say about Edin and Eriksson's resume at this point? Undisputed GOATs. Forget about what country they're from.
A bit sad/ironic Gushue carried the team all week and then lost it here. 3-4 shots where he could've likely altered the outcome before the 9th end.
quote: Originally posted by Hack Weight
Little suspect timing on declaring his team the best ever, considering he didn’t win the Olympics and, as it turns out, lost again to Edin in the WC final. [/B]
That isn't what he said. Gregory Strong extracted that quote from a longer discussion, admitted it on Twitter and refused to clarify the article. I've always thought he was a bad writer but this makes it clear he's also unethical. Curlers should refuse to speak with him.
Last edited by oliviertoisel on 04-11-22 at 07:26AM
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04-11-22 07:15AM |
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mikey
Harvey Hacksmasher
Registered: Dec 2003
Location:
Posts: 56 |
I don't understand why the ice conditions were bad. Shawn Oleson is a good ice maker and they have made ice in this facility before. To me the issue was the scraping. I didn't see them scraping, but you always see someone watching the front of the scraper making sure it is even. Its like they put a novice on the scraper before the final games? The scraper ridges and negative ice weren't there during the round robin games and the ice was quite playable, sub-optimal maybe, but not like the finals.
Its like the icemakers were trying to scrape curl into the sheet because they couldn't touch up the rocks before the final, so they pebbled high on the outside and tried to scrape a dish, leaving ridges and negative ice inside-out.
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04-11-22 11:01AM |
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misty1
Supreme Champion!
Registered: Sep 2011
Location:
Posts: 6002 |
quote: Originally posted by Dangermouse
Sweden would just send the same team but with Ericsson as the skip
Ericsson and wrana are young and healthy but I'd imagine motivation may at some point start to be an issue.if you've won everything then there may be a point when you simply can't find the drive to continue
Sweden has been very lucky in that they have always seemed to have someone ready to step up when the current top team leaves the game or declines but this time they may well and truly be screwed if edin, Eriksson and wrana were to all walk away.
There's no one anywhere near top level after edin. Im fairly confident that they'd fall out of the top group in europe without edin around and if neither wrana or Ericsson stayed around.
Thankfully they do have Isabelle wrana after hasselborg. They're not in ad much trouble with the women
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04-11-22 11:24AM |
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Frykenstein
Harvey Hacksmasher
Registered: Mar 2009
Location:
Posts: 61 |
quote: Originally posted by Nine Ender
Canada could send their 20th best men's team and still be medal threats; at least 7 or 8 of them would be gold medal threats.
Not sure that's true. Look at the W-L results of Canada's top ranked men's teams. The #6, #10, #15, and #20 CAN teams (Dunstone, Epping, Tardi, Smith) were all near or under .500 when playing other Top 50 teams this past season.
OTOH, the OLY medalists Gushue, Edin, and Mouat were all well above .500.
All but two teams at the OLY games were Top 50. All but three at Worlds were Top 50.
If you want to be a legit, consistent medal contender at these events--let alone a gold medal contender, as you suggest #6 Dunstone would be--you have win well more than half of your games against the best in the world, and consistently.
Canada may have terrific depth, but I don't think the numbers support you.
Last edited by Frykenstein on 04-11-22 at 02:10PM
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04-11-22 01:34PM |
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Dangermouse
Swing Artist
Registered: Feb 2014
Location:
Posts: 245 |
quote: Originally posted by misty1
Ericsson and wrana are young and healthy but I'd imagine motivation may at some point start to be an issue.if you've won everything then there may be a point when you simply can't find the drive to continue
Sweden has been very lucky in that they have always seemed to have someone ready to step up when the current top team leaves the game or declines but this time they may well and truly be screwed if edin, Eriksson and wrana were to all walk away.
There's no one anywhere near top level after edin. Im fairly confident that they'd fall out of the top group in europe without edin around and if neither wrana or Ericsson stayed around.
Thankfully they do have Isabelle wrana after hasselborg. They're not in ad much trouble with the women
Sweden would quite happily be “screwed” while they sit at home and polish their six world titles and three Olympic medals.
Besides, Oskar Eriksson is only 30, Wranå is only 27 and the alternate Magnusson is very young indeed. Sweden will still be competing at the top of the men’s game once Nik Edin’s dodgy back finally gives up on him. They’ll be just fine.
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04-11-22 03:33PM |
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Nine Ender
Swing Artist
Registered: Feb 2009
Location:
Posts: 338 |
quote: Originally posted by Frykenstein
Not sure that's true. Look at the W-L results of Canada's top ranked men's teams. The #6, #10, #15, and #20 CAN teams (Dunstone, Epping, Tardi, Smith) were all near or under .500 when playing other Top 50 teams this past season.
OTOH, the OLY medalists Gushue, Edin, and Mouat were all well above .500.
All but two teams at the OLY games were Top 50. All but three at Worlds were Top 50.
If you want to be a legit, consistent medal contender at these events--let alone a gold medal contender, as you suggest #6 Dunstone would be--you have win well more than half of your games against the best in the world, and consistently.
Canada may have terrific depth, but I don't think the numbers support you.
Forget the rankings in a Covid year. I am sure I can find 20 Canadian men's teams that are on par or better then Team Italy more often then not. Some didn't even qualify for the Brier this year.
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04-11-22 03:40PM |
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Frykenstein
Harvey Hacksmasher
Registered: Mar 2009
Location:
Posts: 61 |
quote: Originally posted by Nine Ender
Forget the rankings in a Covid year. I am sure I can find 20 Canadian men's teams that are on par or better then Team Italy more often then not. Some didn't even qualify for the Brier this year.
Why would I forget the rankings in a Covid year? Did Covid only happen in Canada? Isn't the current reality the one that matters?
Retornaz's record against Top 50 teams this year was well above .500, so their success at Worlds maybe isn't the fluke you're suggesting it is.
But go ahead. Find 20 Canadian teams who fared significantly better against Top 50 teams this season than Retornaz did. I'll wait. (Hint: Koe and Bottcher were comparable, but not markedly better.)
Or, failing that, make a decent argument why stats from 2019--whatever the hell they say--are relevant to the state of curling ca. 2022.
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04-11-22 04:23PM |
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Nine Ender
Swing Artist
Registered: Feb 2009
Location:
Posts: 338 |
quote: Originally posted by Frykenstein
Why would I forget the rankings in a Covid year? Did Covid only happen in Canada? Isn't the current reality the one that matters?
Retornaz's record against Top 50 teams this year was well above .500, so their success at Worlds maybe isn't the fluke you're suggesting it is.
But go ahead. Find 20 Canadian teams who fared significantly better against Top 50 teams this season than Retornaz did. I'll wait. (Hint: Koe and Bottcher were comparable, but not markedly better.)
Or, failing that, make a decent argument why stats from 2019--whatever the hell they say--are relevant to the state of curling ca. 2022.
I took a quick look at the top Canadian mens teams. There are 10 teams I would classify as stronger then Team Italy and about 6-14 more teams that would make for an interesting match against Italy. Hard to evaluate teams that aren't on tour or are relatively young teams but some of them are no doubt good. But by the sounds of your posts you seem to be oblivious to this aspect. Teams coming out of Quebec for example are often not push overs at the Brier.
The top 6 teams it's no contest; the Canadian teams are just better then Team Italy. They are markedly better.
I'm not here to persuade you about anything. This is the reality imo whether you believe it or not. There was some consolidation of top Canadian teams in the last couple of years so perhaps top 20 was pushing it but 15 for sure. None of this takes away from the massive improvement in Team Italy but the top Canadian teams were just far more refined consistently good teams over numerous years. Experience counts. If Curling was a hitting contest then perhaps Italy, Korea and a few others would rank higher. They will always
appear to be stronger then they are because every decent country gets a team at the Worlds but if you follow Slam events often World teams struggle against consistently good Cdn competition. You can disagree no problem.
Of course being an Olympic year there is a ton of change going on so moving forward strengths will change.
Last edited by Nine Ender on 04-16-22 at 09:53AM
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04-16-22 09:35AM |
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Frykenstein
Harvey Hacksmasher
Registered: Mar 2009
Location:
Posts: 61 |
quote: Originally posted by Nine Ender
The top 6 teams it's no contest; the Canadian teams are just better then Team Italy. They are markedly better... This is the reality imo whether you believe it or not.
Not interested in your reality/opinion, Homer. Look at the numbers.
Find ten Canadian men's teams with a winning % well above .500 vs. Top 50 teams, because that's who generally medals at Worlds or the Olympics.
Yes, flukes happen. But Retornaz, who played very well vs. the Top 50 this season--better than nearly all the Canadian men's teams on your Top 15 list--isn't one.
Last edited by Frykenstein on 04-16-22 at 01:02PM
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04-16-22 12:58PM |
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Prawnpuller
Harvey Hacksmasher
Registered: Feb 2013
Location: British Columbia
Posts: 97 |
It is very clear that the 3 top Mens teams on the planet are Edin , Gushue and Mouat. After that you could pick the next 30 top teams from any country ( would be dominated by Canadien teams) ) in the world and if you put them into a playoff there would be a different winner every event. That’s my humble opinion and I’m sticking to it😬
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04-16-22 02:09PM |
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