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GregJP
Swing Artist
Registered: Mar 2006
Location: Edmonton
Posts: 378 |
quote:
Originally posted by wakwak
If ONLY Canada were precise... I've always thought Canadian strategy was lacking and too "plain".
Precise and plain are not mutually exclusive.
They should have gone after the Korean team from the very first rock. If that would'nt have worked well too bad and so sad.
But to play up and down the sheet for 8 ends and then make no attempt to force in 9 was just terrible.
The Korean coach was so giddy he had to restrain himself from chuckling.
I still haven't watched the TSN telecast (watched on Eurosport)but I hope Russ and Linda were suitably unimpressed.
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03-24-12 07:01PM |
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Nine Ender
Swing Artist
Registered: Feb 2009
Location:
Posts: 338 |
quote:
Originally posted by Unregistered
Hey ObsessiveCurler,
I don't think you are rushing to conclusions at all. Back in the day when Sandra Schmirler was dominating, there were only 2 or 3 teams who could possibly win the worlds barring a miracle. Now there are 6 to 8. The rest of the world caught up because curling matters more than it ever has. Once it became an Olympic sport the writing was on the wall as far as Canadian domination goes. As a Canadian I love to see Canadians win but there are so many great teams out there now.
There are more good teams, so yes "domination" is fleeting for anyone now.
Success is also cyclical in nature. In fact, only Sweden has been more consistant sending teams to the final then Canada in recent years ( during the supposed down cycle ). I see several strong young Canadian teams coming up the pike very soon. In fact, even J. Jones could be considered a "young" team given that their third is extremely new.
Look at how Muirhead did and its obvious that young teams take time to win. Korea is somewhat of an exception because they practise 5 hours a day, which speeds up the progress but also can lead to early burn out ( note Team China now ).
Nedohin had a good year, but face it, it was their first big breakthrough as a team, and it is very unlikely they are at their true top potential as a team at this point. Whether Curling remains a priority for these women remains to be seen, and its going to get tougher in Canada very soon. I think all the shuffling out there is a clear signal everyone knows just good enough to win Canada this year isn't going to cut it soon.
Last edited by Nine Ender on 03-24-12 at 07:05PM
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03-24-12 07:03PM |
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GregJP
Swing Artist
Registered: Mar 2006
Location: Edmonton
Posts: 378 |
Just curious, why is it Korea? Aren't North Korea and South Korea individual countries?
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03-24-12 07:05PM |
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Unregistered
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Pretty well played and interesting game IMO (despite the blank ends) with lots of tension throughout. A miss or half shot really was critical.
Canada lost a great opportunity in the 8th end when lead Peters put two rocks in great spots but Canada failed to move them into counting position early enough in the end and lost a good opportunity for the two ender.
Heather's strategy is suspect at times and she needed to be more open minded and use input from team mates and her coach. Canada played pretty like a 4th place team all week long and that is where they ended up.
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03-24-12 07:05PM |
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Unregistered
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quote:
Originally posted by Manitoba Legend
For the record I would have played the same freeze as heather - just might not have got the rub!!!! lol
The reason the freeze wasnt the shot was you were conceding shot rock and telling korea if they can tap a rock a foot we will shake your hand. The real strategy error came after Korea made that split shot. You had to play a bumper weight hit and roll over behind cover for second shot. That rock was always gonna be the trouble rock in the end. Instead they played two freezes and the rock moved higher and higher allowing the Koreans to make an easy double. It's a bad day when Korea out strategizes Canada in curling. I think the women's game in this country really really really needs coaching.
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03-24-12 07:10PM |
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GregJP
Swing Artist
Registered: Mar 2006
Location: Edmonton
Posts: 378 |
This is why always laugh when I hear that teams (skips) need "experience" to be good at strategy.
no, they need one smart person to sit down with them, watch maybe 200 hours of video ans drill into their skulls correct decision making.
It really isn't rocket science. (especially in the women's game)
The Korean skip new EXACTLY what her plan was and Heather Nedohin (with 30 years of experience and an elite curler for a husband) didn't. Simple as that.
There was no game plan that I could see. Or if the plan was to be one up without the hammer in the 10th it was obviously a very flawed plan.
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03-24-12 07:17PM |
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Nine Ender
Swing Artist
Registered: Feb 2009
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Posts: 338 |
quote:
Originally posted by CurlingNut1994
Guess what? I don't care about the men, we aren't talking about the men right now. The only real end in this game was the 10th. It was the only excitement in the game. Yes, Korea did a good job of being control of the game, I'll give them that. They deserved the win. I never said Korea played a bad game, I said they played a boring game that's brutal to watch. I doubt they change their game plan, why get away from strategy that worked if they can? I'm just saying if they keep playing this way and get to the gold medal game than it will be a snoozefest.
You probably detest soccer matches and pitching duels in baseball as well. So turn it off then.
When I was younger, there was a year that David Smith was openly mocking Ed Lukowich for trying to play offense. So they met in the final and Ed won I believe 2-1. It was one of the most memorable finals ever given the circumstances.
This is perhaps what makes great champions in Curling, those who can adapt to any situation and play to win.
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03-24-12 07:18PM |
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Unregistered
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quote:
Originally posted by GregJP
Just curious, why is it Korea? Aren't North Korea and South Korea individual countries?
Neither North Korea or South Korea are official names.
Official names are apparently:
North Korea - the Democratic People's Republic of Korea
South Korea - the Republic of Korea
Not sure if using the name "Korea" to describe the curling team is just a matter of convenience for the broadcasters or whether there are deeper underlying political reasons.
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03-24-12 07:23PM |
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GregJP
Swing Artist
Registered: Mar 2006
Location: Edmonton
Posts: 378 |
quote:
Originally posted by Nine Ender
This is perhaps what makes great champions in Curling, those who can adapt to any situation and play to win.
Like Korea today.
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03-24-12 07:24PM |
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curlerbroad
Super Rockchucker
Registered: Feb 2004
Location: Toronto
Posts: 2668 |
Aargh a loss to the Koreans. TC has been up and down all week. I have to wonder if the CCA needs to look at taking the top women' s teams and developing them.
So despite all the wailing and gnashing of teeth - Amber and her team of "good for nothing's" at least made to the finals.
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Well Behaved Women Don't Make History.
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03-24-12 07:24PM |
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milobloom
Administrator
Registered: Mar 2005
Location: St. Albert
Posts: 839 |
Final Stone for Canada: Shot no one discussed, a split on the Korean stone and roll behind to the other side of the four foot. Granted, very difficult to push the Korean stone past the Canada rock, but if they succeed Korea would only have a tap for one and no chance at two.
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03-24-12 07:31PM |
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sooner
Hitting Paint
Registered: Feb 2007
Location:
Posts: 158 |
quote:
Originally posted by GregJP
This is why always laugh when I hear that teams (skips) need "experience" to be good at strategy.
no, they need one smart person to sit down with them, watch maybe 200 hours of video ans drill into their skulls correct decision making.
It really isn't rocket science. (especially in the women's game)
The Korean skip new EXACTLY what her plan was and Heather Nedohin (with 30 years of experience and an elite curler for a husband) didn't. Simple as that.
There was no game plan that I could see. Or if the plan was to be one up without the hammer in the 10th it was obviously a very flawed plan.
I agree it was painful to watch.Tax dollars at work.
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03-24-12 07:38PM |
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nelski
Super Rockchucker
Registered: Oct 2004
Location: Twin Snowbanks
Posts: 2068 |
There have been some thoughtful posts about stategy here, already. This was a great example of a.) the importantce of strong strategic thinking, b.) game planning, and c.)use of game control (style of play). Textbook discussions are made of this. Thanks to all the CZ experts here who are contributing. Development is a life-long journey and we are only as good as our oppostion. Everything is clearly up a notch. I'm picking SWE for gold now. We'll see.
__________________
Lots of major youth (<21) events. Nice for Murdoch... and us :-D.
Last edited by nelski on 03-24-12 at 07:41PM
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03-24-12 07:38PM |
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sooner
Hitting Paint
Registered: Feb 2007
Location:
Posts: 158 |
quote:
Originally posted by milobloom
Final Stone for Canada: Shot no one discussed, a split on the Korean stone and roll behind to the other side of the four foot. Granted, very difficult to push the Korean stone past the Canada rock, but if they succeed Korea would only have a tap for one and no chance at two.
How about the end where they had a chance to set up for multiple points and they kept on running the guard.She ends up getting one.Brutal shot calling.
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03-24-12 07:42PM |
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nelski
Super Rockchucker
Registered: Oct 2004
Location: Twin Snowbanks
Posts: 2068 |
The other choices were set-ups that depended on a miss of a pretty easy shot. I'm with Milo. I hated the double though.
__________________
Lots of major youth (<21) events. Nice for Murdoch... and us :-D.
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03-24-12 07:43PM |
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Hooper
Swing Artist
Registered: Feb 2011
Location: Tennessee
Posts: 348 |
quote:
Originally posted by milobloom
Final Stone for Canada: Shot no one discussed, a split on the Korean stone and roll behind to the other side of the four foot. Granted, very difficult to push the Korean stone past the Canada rock, but if they succeed Korea would only have a tap for one and no chance at two.
I think somebody tried mentioning it once or twice, but it got dismissed pretty quickly. That was the shot I liked the best. If you hit it, you sit 1-3 and Korea wouldn't be able to sit 1-2 off a simple raise. They'd have to angle the raise to somehow get both yellows and then still keep the shooter.
I think they were too worried about the consequences of not getting it just right, but no matter what they did they were left hoping for a Korea miss. That split would have at least given the best chances for a steal if Korea messed up, as well as cutting down the odds of Korea getting more than one.
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03-24-12 07:52PM |
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freezetothehack
Hitting Paint
Registered: Feb 2005
Location: New Brunswick
Posts: 199 |
The game was lost in the ninth with the last peel by Beth and allowing the K skip to play the tap. I kinda liked the quite hit on the red on the top four. Canada was worried about the draw. The K ship was hitting all day.
My two cents! That and 98 more you get a great coffee with a shot at a new car.
__________________
Freeze to the hack... the toughest shot in curling!
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03-24-12 07:52PM |
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lolar3288
Drawmaster
Registered: Mar 2009
Location: Burlington
Posts: 638 |
quote:
Originally posted by Hooper
I think somebody tried mentioning it once or twice, but it got dismissed pretty quickly. That was the shot I liked the best. If you hit it, you sit 1-3 and Korea wouldn't be able to sit 1-2 off a simple raise. They'd have to angle the raise to somehow get both yellows and then still keep the shooter.
I think they were too worried about the consequences of not getting it just right, but no matter what they did they were left hoping for a Korea miss. That split would have at least given the best chances for a steal if Korea messed up, as well as cutting down the odds of Korea getting more than one.
Well this team never had the HP to win and were out smarted many times....what I really liked was a K. coach that could really think! Not one of the CAC clones! Shows what coaching is really about!
If you could call a game in a book it would be played in the library!
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03-24-12 08:28PM |
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Unregistered
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Nedohin's game calling all week was a little off the wall. She's a bit of a loose cannon out there but usually entertaining. However, without a doubt that was the most boring game of curling I have ever watched. If the game of curling ends up going this route of defensive play it will kill the game. Who would pay to watch that.
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03-24-12 08:39PM |
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curlerbroad
Super Rockchucker
Registered: Feb 2004
Location: Toronto
Posts: 2668 |
quote:
Originally posted by Manitoba Legend
Miri looks supremely pissed!!!
She should be for missing the hit and roll and giving Korea a free draw for 3
__________________
Well Behaved Women Don't Make History.
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03-24-12 08:40PM |
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Unregistered
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quote:
Originally posted by Manitoba Legend
Just tonite???
She's just in 'Dreary Miss Miri' mode tonite vs. the poisonous and quick-hitting 'Otter'
Are you Lyle E. Style??
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03-24-12 09:49PM |
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wakwak
Harvey Hacksmasher
Registered: Apr 2003
Location: T-dot
Posts: 37 |
Things looking up for SUI now... momentum swings! Hope SUI can capitalize with hammer in the 8th end!
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03-24-12 10:01PM |
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Hooper
Swing Artist
Registered: Feb 2011
Location: Tennessee
Posts: 348 |
A Swiss win would make for two entertaining rematches.
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03-24-12 10:15PM |
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