Registered: Jul 2005
Location: Winnipeg, MB
Posts: 211

I thought it was important to let everybody know there is a 256 team limit for the Maitoba Open (MCA) Bonspiel this year. The last couple of years, not including the 125th, there have been about 320 entries. So, if you were thinking of waiting until after you were unsuccessful in the zones to put in your bonspiel entry and take down one of the final four provincial championship berths - that may be too late.

Full disclosure: I am a member of the CurlManitoba board of directors, and somewhat separate from that, I have volunteered to act as the Marketing Chair for the Manitoba Open Bonspiel committee this year.

The full release and Q&A is below. All of the information about the changes to the bonspiel is below, along with the reasons behind the changes.

Women Welcomed for the First Time

For the first time in its 125 year history, female and junior curlers are encouraged to enter the longest running bonspiel in the world. The MCA Bonspiel is now The Manitoba Open, a rebranding that hopes to encourage all curlers in the province to participate. There are now two opportunities to participate – the 256 team, 6 game guarantee, Manitoba Open Bonspiel offering four berths into the Safeway Championship, and also a 64 team HALFspiel, starting Friday, ending Sunday and guaranteeing participants 3 games.

DETAILS: Manitoba Open Bonspiel
• When: January 16-20, 2014
• Where: Winnipeg Curling Clubs
• Cost: $320/team
• Enter: curlmanitoba.org
• Entry deadline: January 2, 2014
• Entry limit: 256 teams

DETAILS: Manitoba Open HALFspiel
• When: January 17-19, 2014
• Where: Winnipeg Curling Clubs
• Cost: $180/ team
• Enter: curlmanitoba.org
• Entry deadline: January 2, 2014
• Entry limit: 64 teams

Frequently Asked Questions
What have you done to the MCA Bonspiel?
We have renamed it “The Manitoba Open”, opened up the entry to any curler who signs up, and created two separate bonspiel streams, the Manitoba Open Bonspiel and Manitoba Open HALFspiel. Details on the specific bonspiel streams can be found below.

Why was the decision made to make the 2014 event an OPEN event?
For 125 years, the Manitoba Curling Association maintained a tradition of a men-only bonspiel. For many years, the Manitoba Ladies Curling Association and then the MCA operated a Women’s bonspiel. More and more we see leagues, clubs and bonspiels operating on an Open principle, with all players welcome to participate. Almost since the two Associations amalgamated in 2000, there has been discussion of one bonspiel serving all curlers in Manitoba. The decision was made to continue the tradition for the 125th anniversary event and then make the change.

Who is welcome to participate?
Any male or female curler, any age, from anywhere in the world is welcome to participate in either the Manitoba Open Bonspiel or the Manitoba HALFspiel.

What team make-up is required?
Any team may enter with four men, four women, a 3-1 combination or a 2-2 combination. A team is considered to be four persons; however, a team may include a listing for an official fifth player on their entry form.

Will there still be Safeway Berths in the Bonspiel?
There will still be four Safeway Championship invitations available from the Manitoba Open Bonspiel. As in the past, these will go to the winner (if eligible) of the Asham Event and three eligible teams in the Free Press and Safeway events (based on published rules).

Can I win a Safeway Berth in the Manitoba Open HALFspiel?
No. The Berths are only available Manitoba Open Bonspiel.

So you’ve created ‘competitive’ and ‘recreational’ bonspiel?
No. We’ve created an “able to take time off work” and an “unable to take time off work” bonspiel. Throughout its history, teams entered the MCA Bonspiel for many different reasons. Some enter for the sole purpose of winning a berth, but many more enter for the experience – visiting different clubs, curling different teams, enjoying the bonspiel hospitality. Because the bonspiel is so large, with so many events, teams who enter either stream will eventually be playing competitive games against teams of a similar skill level.
 
Why has the HALFspiel been added?
Many curlers who have not previously played in the bonspiel are hesitant to commit to the time required. The HALFspiel is an opportunity for these curlers to enjoy the bonspiel experience for the first time. We expect, they’ll enjoy the bonspiel so much they will return next year for the full bonspiel experience. In addition, many curlers have told us that they cannot participate for the full length of time of the traditional bonspiel but that they still wish to participate. This is especially true for rural curlers who have the added challenge of considerable expense to participate in the bonspiel.

How will the draw be made?
The complete bonspiel draw will be pre-iced, removing the need for the computerized draw program which has been used for many years but which has become unserviceable.

When/where will the draw be published?
The entire draw when it is finalized with names in game slots will be published at the CurlManitoba website (curlmanitoba.org) in pdf form. Updates will be posted on the website throughout the bonspiel. Each participating team will also receive a complete paper copy of the draw at the start of the bonspiel.

Will the draw still be published in the newspapers?
We know this is a long-standing tradition and with the cooperation of the newspapers, it will be continued.

When/where will results be published? How will I know where my next game is?
As in the past, the results will have to flow to Bonspiel Headquarters from the clubs. Some clubs will continue to use fax transmission while others will opt for email. As soon as results are confirmed, updated draws will be posted online. Additionally, game lists for each draw will be emailed to participants.

Using the draw information provided to each participating teams and online, participants will also be able to figure out where there next game is. Additionally, this information may be available at the club following the completion of the game.

So we’ll know where we’re going as soon as we finish our game?
That is correct. Probably even before, if you’re looking ahead. One of the largest complaints in recent years about the bonspiel was not pre-icing the draw, so hopefully this makes competing in the event even easier.

What will be happening in the clubs?
The participating clubs will be offering special contests, lunch counter specials and special event entertainment at their own discretion. As this information is provided to the bonspiel committee, it will be relayed to all curlers by email, twitter, etc.

What about Special Prizes?
Plans are being made for a number of very special prizes – to be offered as contest prizes or as draw prizes with all participants eligible. Stay tuned for details!
 
Manitoba Open Bonspiel
What will the format of the Manitoba Open Bonspiel be?
The same format as recent years. All teams will compete in the Asham Event. With the first loss, each team will drop either to the Winnipeg Free Press or Safeway-Lucerne Event. With subsequent losses, the teams will drop into one of the other five events below those two. As in the recent past, each team is guaranteed six games. The first game will be Thursday evening with three games Friday and two Saturday (or two Friday, three Saturday) to reach the sixth game. With only 256 teams, two draws Monday is all that will be required, with an afternoon semi-final draw and event finals in the evening.

Is it fair to have a Women’s team beat a Men’s team trying to win a Safeway Berth?
For as long as championship berths have been available, ineligible teams have been playing in the bonspiel and beating teams who were trying to win a berth. In this regard a women’s team is not different from a team visiting from Saskatchewan, United States or China OR a Manitoba team which has already won a Safeway berth.

Will spares be allowed?
In the Manitoba Open Bonspiel, a team may play with an unregistered spare in any game, so long as the spare is not entered in the bonspiel or HALFspiel on another team. The exception to this will be in the Asham, Safeway, and Free Press events from the round of 16 onward. From that point on, teams will be asked to sign game cards and MUST play only with their three to five registered players in order to remain eligible. Teams which are not concerned with eligibility may play with spares in those games.

Why has the Manitoba Open Bonspiel entry been limited to 256 teams?
Prior to the one-year upswing for the 125th (last year), we had observed a plateauing of the bonspiel entry at about 320 teams along with a general downward trend. There are perfect draw numbers (32, 64, 128, 256, 512) and it was deemed desirable to target one of these numbers, rather than continue facing the challenges of creating ‘odd-number’ draws – especially since the draw for 2014 will be pre-iced in its entirety.

Manitoba Open HALFspiel
Why would I go in the Manitoba HALFspiel?
Because you would like to enjoy everything the Bonspiel has to offer – the camaraderie and competition of curlers, the opportunity to visit other curling clubs, to find out which club has the best Caesar and hospitality – but you can’t commit 6 days to curling in the middle of January. Maybe you’ve never played in the Bonspiel, and you’d like to ease your way in, see what it’s all about, before playing in the full spiel. Maybe you live in rural Manitoba, and the costs of the full spiel have kept you at home in recent years.

Why has the HALFspiel entry been limited to 64 teams?
As with any new idea, it is appropriate to test the concept on a limited basis. Again, 64 teams is a perfect number draw so the pre-icing can be accomplished well in advance.

Will the HALFspiel be played in the same clubs?
Yes, all of the curlers in the Manitoba Open and the Manitoba Open HALFspiel will have the opportunity for ‘luck-of-the-draw’ opportunities to play in every participating club.

What will the format of the Manitoba Open HALFspiel be?
The bonspiel will feature four events and a three game guarantee. Teams will play one game on Friday evening and two games Saturday. Teams which advance beyond their 3-game guarantee, will play a maximum of two games Sunday. The HALFspiel finals will be Sunday evening.

Will spares be allowed?
In the Manitoba Open HALFspiel, a team may play with an unregistered spare in any game, so long as the spare is not entered in the HALFspiel or the Manitoba Open Bonspiel on another team.

__________________
It's colder when you're losing...

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Mar 2012
Location:
Posts: 105

These are good changes. There are a lot of curlers who would like to participate in this spiel but just can't get the time off of work, so hopefully the HALFspiel can get those curlers involved.

With the draw being iced as soon as the end of next month, a lot of the pressure should be released from the volunteers. Did the retirement of Mel Marsh, the drawmaster for the old spiel, play a role in this decision?

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Oct 2004
Location: Twin Snowbanks
Posts: 2068

Well done Curl Manitoba. You've got my interest.

__________________
Lots of major youth (<21) events. Nice for Murdoch... and us :-D.

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Jul 2005
Location: Winnipeg, MB
Posts: 211

Thanks for the positive comments.

To answer the question in regards to the draw, yes, the retirement of the drawmaster did play into the decision, along with the fact that the computer program to create the bonspiel draw is old - think MS DOS, 5.25 inch floppy disc, command line type old. Pre-icing the draw will allow us to either use fewer volunteers, or the same amount of volunteers but require less of a time commitment from them. I'm not 100% certain of this, but I do believe Mel Marsh helped to create the 256 team, pre-iced draw.

__________________
It's colder when you're losing...

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Jul 2005
Location: Winnipeg, MB
Posts: 211

I just want to clarify that I did not blame an old computer program or 1 guy retiring, simply stated that it played into the decision, when asked. There were many, many factors that played into the decisions about the bonspiel, most of which can be deduced from the Q&A. But if anybody has any questions, I will answer.

Thanks for your feedback Fresca, but I hope you're wrong about everything.

__________________
It's colder when you're losing...

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Oct 2004
Location: Twin Snowbanks
Posts: 2068

quote:

---

Originally posted by fresca
i try to say nice things but , changing the name is just wrong in my opinion, allowing ladies is probabably a huge mistake ... good luck getting 100 teams, pretty sure guys dont want to lose to women ....
... guess we wont know til February

---

__________________
Lots of major youth (<21) events. Nice for Murdoch... and us :-D.

Last edited by nelski on 10-25-13 at 11:25AM

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Jan 2009
Location: Winnipeg
Posts: 16

Bryce's plateau of 320 teams is not accurate. In fact its not even close. Below are average entries by decade and then actual numbers for 2010, 11,12 and 13.
1960's average was 482 teams
1970's average was 630 teams
1980's average was 834 teams (1280 teams in 1988)
1990's average was 562 teams
2000's average was 468 teams
2010 entry was 397
2011 entry was 384
2012 entry was 352
2013 entry was 448
So far the average in the 2010's is 395 teams

Bryce will say the trend was towards 320 but the next guy can say the bottom of the cycle was in 2012 and it is now trending upward.

The limit of 256 is a very VERY bad move. It inhibits growth.
The last time the bonspiel had 256 teams was 70 YEARS AGO in 1943!
I suspect the real reason for the limit of 256 teams is laziness, a fear of the extra work involved of any deviation from a perfect draw.
Curlmanitoba has a pre-made perfect 256 team cookie cutter draw where just the names change year over year, easy as pie, but this inhibits growth. Part of the mission statement of CurlManitoba is to GROW the sport, not take the easy way out.

Just hire a computer geek to write code for a master draw allowing for any amount of entries, using all the sheets available, keeping teams playing at nearby clubs, get end sheets only once every 3 or 4 games, and don’t play against clubmates, at the same club or against the same team twice.
How hard can that be in this day and age?

__________________
He was playing 3rd, three positions higher than where he should have been

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Jul 2005
Location: Winnipeg, MB
Posts: 211

Hi Deacon,

In all honesty, 320 was something I pulled off the top of my head based on what I recalled. Thanks for posting the numbers.

The reason I posted this information was to let competitive teams who would like to try to earn a berth in provincials through the bonspiel know that they should enter early. I probably remembered a much lower entry than actually happened to put an emphasis on the need to enter early. I would just hate to see a team wait until after regionals and not get in - especially when it is very simple to enter both at the same time using the online entry.

You don't have to suspect the real reason - it's right there in the Q&A. That's exactly why we did it. But I disagree that it is laziness or fear of work. It's the lack of volunteers to actually do the work. It's easy to say we should do something, much harder to find people to do it.

CurlManitoba's mission is to grow the sport, and the committee will be looking at the bonspiel after this season and making the necessary tweaks to ensure that happens. Our goal is to get the bonspiel back to its former glory. We're not saying this is the bonspiel now and forever. We are willing to make changes to the spiel going forward, and we appreciate all feedback.

Your hire a computer geek solution seems simple. Which is why we tried that. It's apparently much harder than it seems. And the fact that it's much harder, made it prohibitively expensive, at this point in time for CurlManitoba.

Thanks for your feedback and for bumping this back to the top.

__________________
It's colder when you're losing...

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Mar 2006
Location:
Posts: 3

What clubs are being used?

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Feb 2007
Location: dunc's curling bag
Posts: 56

Lets face it. Its not not the curling that died itself out, its our local laws

Minimum cost per drinks.
Can't consume more than one drink before driving.
Laws regarding providing booze in hospitality rooms in hotels.
No smoking anywhere in the building (except the sauna at the Thistle, but thats completely different)

CurlManitoba is trying something. It sucks to loose the old bonspiel. I miss going out to the spiel and coming back smelling like an ashtray and bucket of Old Standard puke. But times change, and so will the bonspiel.

I give you my guarantee though that when I 'go', I'm coming back born in 1950, learning to throw overhand, and shotgunning a 40 of 5-star in the basement of the old Fort Garry CC with a cigarette still hanging from the corner of my mouth, all the time racing Orest M to see who finishes first without tears in their eyes.

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Oct 2006
Location: Winnipeg
Posts: 72

Anyone hear how many entries so far in each of the divisions?

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Mar 2012
Location:
Posts: 105

quote:

---

Originally posted by BradleyJ
Anyone hear how many entries so far in each of the divisions?

---

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Mar 2012
Location:
Posts: 105

CBC radio interviewed Resby Coutts this morning. He said the main spiel was full at 256, with a waiting list of about 30. The HALFspiel is at 49 right now, so CurlManitoba was going to see if some on the waiting list would go to the HALFspiel. One of the teams that Resby mentioned that is entered in the HALFspiel is Michelle Montford. Of all the 300 or so teams currently registered, Resby said about 20 (or 30? (I can't remember)) have at least 1 woman.

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Oct 2006
Location: Winnipeg
Posts: 72

I think it's great that there is a waiting list and, as stated above - it is important to create supply and demand and maybe there will be some urgency next year for teams to get their entries in early.

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Feb 2012
Location: Winnipeg
Posts: 44

Does anyone know where to find the draw online? I don't have access to the paper. Used to be the Free Press would post it but I can't find it.

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Oct 2004
Location: Twin Snowbanks
Posts: 2068

quote:

---

Originally posted by Chopper
Does anyone know where to find the draw online? I don't have access to the paper. Used to be the Free Press would post it but I can't find it.

---

__________________
Lots of major youth (<21) events. Nice for Murdoch... and us :-D.

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Oct 2006
Location: Winnipeg
Posts: 72

The full draws are posted on curlmanitoba.org.

If you were trying to figure out what other teams might be in your group of 8 or 16 from the original lists - the actual draw is different.

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Feb 2005
Location: .
Posts: 1844

Does this bonspiel get entries from outside of the province, from SK, ON, North Dakota, or places elsewhere?

__________________
Guest

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Oct 2006
Location: Winnipeg
Posts: 72

Historically yes...although I would say substantially less and less every year.
We've played a few US teams over the years and even some European teams over the years.
I know the Chinese national team has played it before as well.

Unfortunately the spiel has lost some of its 'luster' over the years but the guys like Bryce are working real hard to get it back!!

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Feb 2005
Location: .
Posts: 1844

quote:

---

Originally posted by Sweat Towel
I give you my guarantee though that when I 'go', I'm coming back born in 1950, learning to throw overhand, and shotgunning a 40 of 5-star in the basement of the old Fort Garry CC with a cigarette still hanging from the corner of my mouth, all the time racing Orest M to see who finishes first without tears in their eyes.

---

__________________
Guest

Last edited by Guest on 01-15-14 at 10:16AM

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Oct 2006
Location: Winnipeg
Posts: 72

quote:

---

Originally posted by BradleyJ
Historically yes...although I would say substantially less and less every year.
We've played a few US teams over the years and even some European teams over the years.
I know the Chinese national team has played it before as well.

Unfortunately the spiel has lost some of its 'luster' over the years but the guys like Bryce are working real hard to get it back!!

---

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Feb 2012
Location: Winnipeg
Posts: 44

AFter looking at the draw, it would have been nice to know that there is no curling scheduled on Monday until 7PM. Most people have to book vacation days in advance. Unless you work at being head honcho at Curl Manitoba and try to run a curling website. A little communication goes a long way. Vacation days are valuable and I hate wasting them.

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Jul 2005
Location: Winnipeg, MB
Posts: 211

Thanks guys. There's a team of good people working on this and I'm just the mouthpiece. I'm a little worried that the Legend is down with most of what we're doing - makes me wonder if we're on the right track or not...

We're trying to add some excitement to the prize portion of the bonspiel, as the teams who are playing for the big prizes of the berths are really a small minority. So for this year we have:

-4 teams will win berths to compete in the Safeway Championship
-1 Curler will be randomly drawn to win a trip for 2 to Las Vegas
-3 Curlers will have the chance to draw the button to win a $50,000 luxury vehicle from Nott Autocorp
-Day passes to attend the Safeway Championship

Looking at the list of teams, I see teams from:
St. Paul Minnesota (1)
Kettle Moraine Wisconsin (2)
Souix Lookout Ontario (1)

And a whole bunch of Manitobans.

__________________
It's colder when you're losing...

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Oct 2006
Location: Winnipeg
Posts: 72

If you are playing tomorrow am at either FT. Garry or Heather LEAVE LOTS OF TIME TO GET THERE!

Archibald is still closed heading Northbound at Marion (at teasers) and the traffic is absolutely INSANE in the entire area.
Trust me - there will be a few shingles hung up tomorrow am for the teams who don't know!

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Apr 2006
Location:
Posts: 114

Let the games begin and the alcohol flow!

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged