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FleuryFan
Harvey Hacksmasher
Registered: Dec 2018
Location:
Posts: 53 |
quote:
Originally posted by Bulls Eye
Actually, I think Korea may be in second as they hold the H2H over Scotland. Does anyone know what advantage (if any) second holds over third? Do they get hammer in the first, choice of rocks, etc?
Yes, I think the higher ranked team either gets hammer or hammer and choice of color. I think they were referring to the fact that they believe Scotland will beat Korea in the 2 vs. 3 game, however.
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12-15-21 05:18PM |
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Bulls Eye
Harvey Hacksmasher
Registered: Mar 2017
Location:
Posts: 80 |
quote:
Originally posted by decade
China's women are ranked about 50th on the world ranking and the men 75 ish. They haven't been overly strong since Bingyu Wang one the worlds although she had a great career.
I would say the women would have been about middle of the pack and the men near the bottom if they had to compete in this event. Neither are expected to contend for medals. The future looks brighter; Han Yu is only 21 and is coming off a decent junior career.
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12-15-21 05:35PM |
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Dangermouse
Swing Artist
Registered: Feb 2014
Location:
Posts: 245 |
One draw left for both the men and women
Men:
Pretty simple here. Norway have clinched automatic qualification and Italy have clinched second place. Denmark and Czech Republic will complete the playoff line up with the winner of their game in D9 taking 3rd place and thus having two bits of the cherry, and the loser will be 4th and have to win a one off game to punch their ticket to Beijing.
Women:
Japan, Korea and Scotland have clinched playoff places. Latvia and Italy are competing for the last spot, everyone else is out.
Japan will clinch automatic qualification with either a win over Turkey, or Scotland lose to Italy.
Scotland will clinch automatic qualification with a win over Italy, Japan lose to Turkey and Korea lose to Czech Republic.
If Scotland and Korea win and Japan lose, then the top 3 spots will be determined by DSC. Currently that would mean Scotland would finish 1st.
Japan and Korea are both guaranteed to finish in the top 3.
If Italy beat Scotland, then not only will they clinch a playoff place, but they will finish above Scotland in the standings and Muirhead will slip to 4th. If Italy beat Scotland then it is guaranteed that Japan qualify, Korea vs Italy is the 2 vs 3 game and the loser of that will play Scotland.
If Scotland beat Italy then the Italians are out and Latvia will finish 4th.
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12-16-21 06:19AM |
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Observer
Swing Artist
Registered: Apr 2016
Location: River Falls, WI, USA
Posts: 445 |
Team Turkey went 3-6 in this event. All three of their wins were against the Top 3 on the table: Scotland, Korea, and now today, Japan as well.
That forced a three-way tie amongst Scotland, Korea, and Japan, and they were all 1-1 against each other, meaning Last Stone Draw decided it, and Scotland was top of that table, so they're through with the round robin win berth. They're back in the Olympics.
Meanwhile, Korea and Japan play each other tomorrow in the 2-3 game. Winner is in the Olympics. Latvia, the 4th place finisher, stands by to play the loser, and the winner of that one also goes to the Olympics.
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12-16-21 10:42AM |
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curlerbroad
Super Rockchucker
Registered: Feb 2004
Location: Toronto
Posts: 2668 |
Japan is going to regret that loss! Turkey got 3 in the 10th. Does anyone know what happened?
__________________
Well Behaved Women Don't Make History.
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12-16-21 10:49AM |
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guido
Super Rockchucker
Registered: Feb 2011
Location: Winnipeg
Posts: 1418 |
quote:
Originally posted by curlerbroad
Japan is going to regret that loss! Turkey got 3 in the 10th. Does anyone know what happened?
The amount they scored in the 10th is moot. They were tied with the hammer. Japan goes all out for the steal, which inevitably leaves Turkish rocks in play. Lose by one, lose by eight, doesn’t matter.
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12-16-21 10:55AM |
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Observer
Swing Artist
Registered: Apr 2016
Location: River Falls, WI, USA
Posts: 445 |
And how's this for craziness: the LSD also determines who is the 2-seed and who is the 3-seed for the playoff game. Korea finished at 34.27cm and Japan at 34.61cm. A difference of just _3.4 millimeters_.
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12-16-21 10:59AM |
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Dangermouse
Swing Artist
Registered: Feb 2014
Location:
Posts: 245 |
Scotland/Korea/Japan combined record against Italy/Germany/Latvia/Estonia/Czech Republic: 15-0
Scotland/Korea/Japan combined record against Turkey: 0-3.
And yet Turkey lost to the 5 teams who the big 3 swept.
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12-16-21 11:45AM |
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Bulls Eye
Harvey Hacksmasher
Registered: Mar 2017
Location:
Posts: 80 |
2-3 game is a rematch of the 2018 Olympic semi-final. I heard it was/is the most watched game in curling history. Given the popularity and potential growth in both markets, it would be good to see both Japan and Korea in Beijing, especially considering they didn't make it in MD or men's.
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12-16-21 12:15PM |
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biterbar
Drawmaster
Registered: Mar 2009
Location:
Posts: 695 |
quote:
Originally posted by Dangermouse
Scotland/Korea/Japan combined record against Italy/Germany/Latvia/Estonia/Czech Republic: 15-0
Scotland/Korea/Japan combined record against Turkey: 0-3.
And yet Turkey lost to the 5 teams who the big 3 swept.
That is a crazy stat!!
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12-16-21 12:31PM |
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Observer
Swing Artist
Registered: Apr 2016
Location: River Falls, WI, USA
Posts: 445 |
See Team Jentsch's Instagram for more on the poor ice conditions.
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12-16-21 12:37PM |
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oliviertoisel
Drawmaster
Registered: Feb 2021
Location:
Posts: 587 |
What an incredibly exciting and ridiculous ending to the women's round robin. Delightful.
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12-16-21 12:42PM |
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hogged again
Drawmaster
Registered: Mar 2019
Location:
Posts: 659 |
quote:
Originally posted by Dangermouse
Muirhead's team GB qualifies for the olympics
Yah she is really having a great year, will be serious contender in Beijing.
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12-16-21 01:47PM |
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hailstone
Swing Artist
Registered: May 2018
Location:
Posts: 407 |
The Turkish Ladies team run is the most perplexing I have ever seen in curling. I can only guess that their simple, pinball style of play (I've never seen a team use the runback so often with such success) is such that caught the elite teams off guard.
The irony of beating Japan is that in rendered Turkey's impact on the tournament to effectively zero. It had no effect on the top three, and of course it did nothing to get Turkey into the top four. Everything Turkey did got cancelled out.
Fujisawa's management of that game was quite poor. She missed an easy draw for two in the third end, and passed up a chance to eliminate one or two Turkish rocks in the seventh in favor of a poorly executed draw that allowed them to nail a double and get the big end that forced Japan's hand for the rest of the game.
I'm quite sure Korea will get their win back today, leaving Fujisawa one more day to figure out how to choke against Latvia.
Last edited by hailstone on 12-16-21 at 11:18PM
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12-16-21 11:10PM |
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guido
Super Rockchucker
Registered: Feb 2011
Location: Winnipeg
Posts: 1418 |
Fleury fan and Hailstone.
Members since 2018.
Less than a dozen posts.
All of a sudden show up in the same thread.
Coincidence??
I’m sure Fresca and Manitoba Idiot know for sure.
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12-17-21 12:20AM |
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curlerbroad
Super Rockchucker
Registered: Feb 2004
Location: Toronto
Posts: 2668 |
quote:
Originally posted by hailstone
The Turkish Ladies team run is the most perplexing I have ever seen in curling. I can only guess that their simple, pinball style of play (I've never seen a team use the runback so often with such success) is such that caught the elite teams off guard.
The irony of beating Japan is that in rendered Turkey's impact on the tournament to effectively zero. It had no effect on the top three, and of course it did nothing to get Turkey into the top four. Everything Turkey did got cancelled out.
Fujisawa's management of that game was quite poor. She missed an easy draw for two in the third end, and passed up a chance to eliminate one or two Turkish rocks in the seventh in favor of a poorly executed draw that allowed them to nail a double and get the big end that forced Japan's hand for the rest of the game.
I'm quite sure Korea will get their win back today, leaving Fujisawa one more day to figure out how to choke against Latvia.
Fortunately Fujisawa and Team won! Sometimes a loss stokes the fire. Now Korea faces a tricky Latvia
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12-17-21 07:37AM |
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oliviertoisel
Drawmaster
Registered: Feb 2021
Location:
Posts: 587 |
With Italy through we now have 4/4 favourites making it. On the men's side I'm rooting for the Czechs who would be an upset after the Japanese bombed this week. The way they are playing it'll be a good game with Denmark; both teams have had some incredible highs this week. On the women's side Korea is a fairly large favourite with Latvia unable to beat any of the top teams thus far; but they only need to do it once.
quote:
Originally posted by guido
Fleury fan and Hailstone.
Members since 2018.
Less than a dozen posts.
All of a sudden show up in the same thread.
Coincidence??
I’m sure Fresca and Manitoba Idiot know for sure.
As someone new to this place I was shocked at the behaviour of ML and frasca. We are now free of them. And yet you seem intent on carrying on the discussion. Can't we just let them go?
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12-17-21 11:51AM |
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Bulls Eye
Harvey Hacksmasher
Registered: Mar 2017
Location:
Posts: 80 |
quote:
Originally posted by Observer
And how's this for craziness: the LSD also determines who is the 2-seed and who is the 3-seed for the playoff game. Korea finished at 34.27cm and Japan at 34.61cm. A difference of just _3.4 millimeters_.
I think Japan had the second seed if the hammer in the first end is any indication. Scotland was first as the DSC is used to determine order in an unbreakable three way tie. Second place seemed to be determined by H2H rather than DSC.
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12-17-21 12:04PM |
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Bulls Eye
Harvey Hacksmasher
Registered: Mar 2017
Location:
Posts: 80 |
quote:
Originally posted by Dangermouse
Scotland/Korea/Japan combined record against Italy/Germany/Latvia/Estonia/Czech Republic: 15-0
Scotland/Korea/Japan combined record against Turkey: 0-3.
And yet Turkey lost to the 5 teams who the big 3 swept.
Going into the tournament there was a sizeable gap in world rankings between the big 3 and the field. Who would have guessed that the teams would be grouped as the the big 3, Turkey and the rest of the field!
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12-17-21 12:11PM |
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IN-OFF-FOR-2
Super Rockchucker
Registered: Mar 2013
Location:
Posts: 1875 |
Happy to see Italy qualify. Got to see them at the Halifax Stu Sells last month. Good guys.
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12-17-21 12:55PM |
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guido
Super Rockchucker
Registered: Feb 2011
Location: Winnipeg
Posts: 1418 |
quote:
Originally posted by oliviertoisel
As someone new to this place I was shocked at the behaviour of ML and frasca. We are now free of them. And yet you seem intent on carrying on the discussion. Can't we just let them go?
Just giving a heads up that they may be back. My apologies. Carry on.
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12-17-21 01:01PM |
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curlingclips
Super Rockchucker
Registered: Oct 2019
Location:
Posts: 1523 |
quote:
Originally posted by Bulls Eye
I think Japan had the second seed if the hammer in the first end is any indication. Scotland was first as the DSC is used to determine order in an unbreakable three way tie. Second place seemed to be determined by H2H rather than DSC.
This is incorrect.
In all officially published standings after round robin, KOR is #2 and JPN is #3
Once you use DSC to rank a group of teams with equal win-loss records, you don't revert back to head-to-head. DSC is a last resort. Well, technically there are follow-ups on what happens in the unlikely case that DSCs are equal, but it's all based on measurements that comprise DSC, so I think it's fine to say that DSC is the last resort in practice.
The fact that JPN had hammer does not 100% prove anything. Rule C8(f) says that if there's a rematch between two teams with equal win-loss record, the team who won the round robin game had the choice of either stone color or LSFE.
In this case, JPN beat KOR in round robin, and obviously they chose LSFE, but they could've chosen color instead, which would have given KOR the LSFE. It could've gone either way, but JPN made the traditional choice of LSFE instead of stone color.
-------------------------------------
Another example from 2019 World Men's.
SUI, CAN and JPN are all 9W-3L.
SUI > JPN
JPN > CAN
CAN > SUI
So DSC is used and SUI is #2 and gets bye to semifinal. CAN is #3 and had to play the 3v6 game first and win that before semifinal rematch with SUI.
In the semifinal rematch, CAN had LSFE, even though CAN is ranked lower than SUI. It doesn't 100% prove anything, because CAN could've chosen color instead, but the rule does say that CAN is the one who had the privilege of making that choice, despite being lower-ranked than SUI.
Last edited by curlingclips on 12-17-21 at 04:32PM
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12-17-21 03:53PM |
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curlerbroad
Super Rockchucker
Registered: Feb 2004
Location: Toronto
Posts: 2668 |
quote:
Originally posted by guido
Just giving a heads up that they may be back. My apologies. Carry on.
Perhaps they’ll behave themselves this time.
__________________
Well Behaved Women Don't Make History.
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12-17-21 04:20PM |
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