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Just curious what everyone's thoughts on this move by cc are. Im kind of nervous. What are the chances he does in Canada what he did in Scotland and what most other countries have done. Could he convince canada to make it so that your ranking plays a part in whether you go to worlds or not. Might we see that winning the scotties or brier doesn't get you to worlds

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quote:

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Originally posted by misty1
Could he convince canada to make it so that your ranking plays a part in whether you go to worlds or not

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In the last decade which men's or women's team that went for worlds are we trying to undo? Because I'm not sure what exactly introducing rankings is achieving when the Brier and Scotties winners are all top ranked teams.

Or is the argument that Gushue, Koe and Bottcher are so bad they shouldn't be allowed to compete at the Brier? Just like Rachel Homan never should've been allowed to go to the Olympics because she was only...reigning world champion.

Scotland has NEVER won a men's olympic gold and their last world championship was 14 years ago. And yet people praise their program. Meanwhile their women's team flop into a gold medal and we act like it's amazing, but if Krista McCarvilla had won the Scotties there would be some people saying she shouldn't go to worlds. It's all absolutely absurd. Canada's selection method hasn't produced a fluke team in recent memory so that cannot be the problem. The last Olympic fluke was MAYBE Brad Jacobs and, uh, he won gold. You probably have to go back to Gushue 2006 to get a real fluke team and, uh, same result. On the women's side they have made had fewer top top teams but their results have been fine and the top teams don't do much better.

Last edited by oliviertoisel on 02-10-23 at 02:56PM

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My prediction for the most obvious David Murdoch move he'll make is building a high tech national curling academy, ala Stirling for Scotland, as a long term investment for high performance curling in Canada.

I don't think he'll mess with Scotties/Brier too much, but I can see him repurposing them so winners wear the Maple Leaf and represent Canada at Pan-Continental instead of Worlds.

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quote:

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Originally posted by curlingclips
My prediction for the most obvious David Murdoch move he'll make is building a high tech national curling academy, ala Stirling for Scotland, as a long term investment for high performance curling in Canada.

I don't think he'll mess with Scotties/Brier too much, but I can see him repurposing them so winners wear the Maple Leaf and represent Canada at Pan-Continental instead of Worlds.

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quote:

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Originally posted by oliviertoisel
you've been harping on about for a year now

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If you want to hear from other people, here are some podcast episodes and written articles (I'll edit to add more as I find them).

Rocks Across the Pond: “Muddy” waters in Canada
http://www.rocksacrossthepond.com/2...ters-in-canada/

Inside Curling - Going International ft. Selena Njegovan
https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podca...i=1000599059449

2 Girls and a Game - So much for our week off
https://2girlsandagame.libsyn.com/s...or-our-week-off

The Curling News - An Open Letter to David Murdoch (from Mike Fournier)
https://www.si.com/curling/blog/an-...o-david-murdoch

Last edited by curlingclips on 02-11-23 at 11:31AM

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Murdoch to be fair is just being brought in a performance director - he isn't running Curling Canada and will have no role in selection as its done via a competitive process.

That is totally different to Scotland where there are only a handful of curlers who can compete at world and Olympic level. Bar a shock in the Scottish finals today Team Mouat and Team Morrison will be playing the worlds and europeans and probably every year to until the 2026 Olympics.

I presume Mr Murdoch is getting a pay rise - and good luck to him. Having helped deliver an Olympic women's gold and a men's silver he probably thinks its going to be hard to top that by staying with British curling.

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quote:

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Originally posted by curlingclips

This isn't about me. Many people have wondered for years that just like Olympic Trials winners go to Olympics, maybe Canada Cup winners go to Worlds.

Here's Chelsea Carey quote from Kristina Rutherford's piece:

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quote:

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Originally posted by oliviertoisel
conflating multiple issues

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quote:

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Originally posted by oliviertoisel
it would be brain dead to take your two brand name events and make them less important

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Last edited by curlingclips on 02-11-23 at 04:44PM

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I am enjoying this discussion of future possible events for great Canadian Curlers. It doesn't sound like Murdoch will be here to change our system, though he may bring points from discussions at the Scottish table, to our conversations. He will have folks to answer to on both sides - athletes and executive - with the task to make the athletes perform at the excellent level, in the current system - whatever that my be. Diverting athletes will not help performance. The players association will trigger enough diversion.

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Lots of major youth (<21) events. Nice for Murdoch... and us :-D.

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I don't expect Murdoch doing something like just certain teams can win Scotties to Worlds. He didn't do it in Scotland then, why would he do it in Canada?

I know Joanne Courtney said timing from Scotties/Worlds is way too short. Is this something you want to change, have your nationals earlier which would mean earlier provincials?

Same thing for Olympic trials. How should teams be selected for trials, is it too late?

And what happens of the Canada Cup? We know the Pointsbet event is back, do you have the time to have another event and can it serve as PanContinental qualifier?

I don't have those answers, but those are the questions that are worth asking to a HPD.

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Game of Stones podcast has an interesting conspiracy theory.

Basically, it's suggested that perhaps Tim Hortons dumping the Brier sponsorship doesn't mean that Tim Hortons is pulling out of curling. Maybe the reason why is because there would be a separate Worlds Trials high performance event, and Tim Hortons would be sponsoring that new event instead.

Interesting theory, but doesn't sound true to me. If Tim Hortons is interested in sponsoring that other new event, then they can probably do it without dumping the Brier.

They did point out that the Brier may not be as valuable as a brand as the Scotties, for the simple fact that "Scotties" already bears the sponsoring company name. So maybe Tim Hortons would dump the Brier to sponsor a new event that bears their name, e.g. "Horties" or something like that.

Just like the Olympic Trials, the "Horties" Worlds Trials would have men's & women's combined in one event, so it may be more appealing to Tim Hortons than just the Brier.

It should be noted that Tim Hortons did sponsor the last 3 Olympic Trials (2013, 2017, 2021).

Last edited by curlingclips on 02-13-23 at 10:29PM

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During a chat with Bob Weeks, Shannon Birchard also suggested the need for a centralized training facility for high performance curling, acknowledging that Canadian teams are geographically-challenged compared to Scotland.

https://twitter.com/TSNCurling/stat...555472504999936

I feel like this is a sure bet. It's a safe legacy for David Murdoch: even if he can't produce a gold medal in 2026, he can at least build a David Murdoch Academy for Canadian Curling Excellence that will still be there long after he's gone.

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In Sweden, Anna Hasselborg just won Game 7 against Isabella Wranå, thus winning the best-of-7 series of their World Women's Trial.

Canada needs to start doing this too for the Worlds & Olympics Trials, in my opinion. Best-of-3 finals should be minimum.

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quote:

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Originally posted by curlingclips
In Sweden, Anna Hasselborg just won Game 7 against Isabella Wranå, thus winning the best-of-7 series of their World Women's Trial.

Canada needs to start doing this too for the Worlds & Olympics Trials, in my opinion. Best-of-3 finals should be minimum.

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Well Behaved Women Don't Make History.

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They interviewed some players from 2023 Scotties about Murdoch hiring.

TSN.ca: Scotties’ elite curlers surprised, but intrigued after Murdoch hiring by Curling Canada

Kamloops This Week: Einarson hopes players voices will be heard under Curling Canada high-performance director Murdoch


Nothing substantial in terms of plans and ideas, but I'd say the general sentiment is overwhelmingly positive for upcoming changes.

Last edited by curlingclips on 02-22-23 at 03:45AM

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Doubt if this works out well.
Did CurlCanada hire the guy to represent the interests of the players to produce "high performance" or did they hire him to try to control the players? Looking at CC history and the fact that he's from a system that is very hands on from management I suspect the latter.
Also there is some sort of players union being formed and with the general dissatisfaction among elite Canadian teams regarding the rules I think there will be conflict sooner rather than later.

Last edited by hogged again on 02-22-23 at 03:24PM

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They had a media scrum at 2023 Brier. Apparently David Murdoch has already started the new job, much earlier than what was reported in previous announcements.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=okkKfFl-Md8&t=11s

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I won't comment on the politics of what Murdoch may or may not do in his new position - because I really don't care about such politics.

I will comment on the hiring itself, though...

Canada (and Curling Canada) likes to claim curling as ITS GAME. Canada (and Curling Canada) likes to claim that Canada is the best country for curling with the best curlers in the world.

And then they go and hire a SCOTTSMAN to a very significant position within Curling Canada.
To me, this is completely ridiculous.

I have absolutely nothing against David Murdoch. My father became friends with David's father at a Worlds event, and both David and his father seem(ed) like very nice people.
BUT IS THERE HONESTLY NO CANADIAN WHO CAN FILL THIS POSITION?!
With all of the great curlers - past and present - in Canada, how can they possibly not hire a Canadian for this position?
Did every Elite level Canadian curler - past and present - refuse the position when offered?
It's mind boggling.

How can Canada possibly claim, with a straight face, to be the best curling country on the planet if it feels it must go outside of the country to find someone to guide its best curlers?!
This is crazy.

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"It is easy in the world to live after the world's opinion; it is easy in solitude to live after our own... but the great man is he who, in the midst of the crowd, keeps with perfect sweetness the independence of solitude." ~ Ralph Waldo Emerson

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I'm thinking they wanted an outsider's POV and liked what he had to offer to the table, whatever it may be.

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quote:

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Originally posted by MeaghanEdwards
I'm thinking they wanted an outsider's POV and liked what he had to offer to the table, whatever it may be.

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No.
They want a different perspective?
Do all Canadian curlers have the same perspective/strategy on curling? No - of course not. If you round up 20 elite level Canadian curlers, you can have at least 10 different perspectives. So the needing to go outside of Canada in order to get a 'different perspective' argument goes out the window.

It's like hiring an American to teach elite level hockey for Hockey Canada...
Or hiring a Canadian to teach elite level baseball or football for the top organizations of those sports in the U.S.
Or hiring a Canadian to teach elite level soccer in Brazil or Spain or...
It's ridiculous.

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"It is easy in the world to live after the world's opinion; it is easy in solitude to live after our own... but the great man is he who, in the midst of the crowd, keeps with perfect sweetness the independence of solitude." ~ Ralph Waldo Emerson

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[QUOTE]Originally posted by On The Nose
No.
They want a different perspective?
Do all Canadian curlers have the same perspective/strategy on curling? No - of course not. If you round up 20 elite level Canadian curlers, you can have at least 10 different perspectives. So the needing to go outside of Canada in order to get a 'different perspective' argument goes out the window.

It's like hiring an American to teach elite level hockey for Hockey Canada...
Or hiring a Canadian to teach elite level baseball or football for the top organizations of those sports in the U.S.
Or hiring a Canadian to teach elite level soccer in Brazil or Spain or...
It's ridiculous. [/QUOTE


This time I agree. There are 50 Canadians qualified for this job......provided Curling Canada lets them do the job without their thumb pushing restraints. We'll hire you but do it our way.

Side note. WAAAAYYY too top heavy at Curling Canada.
They're like politicians. They do and say whatever they have to,... to get the job, Then do whatever they have to say and do to keep their job. What's best for Curling IN Canada be damned.

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